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Causes of Rebellion - Raquelle Sheen     Reply to topic
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Camden Spiller
32, Vancouver, WA

[Administrator]

Posts: 2717
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 07 1:24 am Reply with quote Report this to the Response Team

Causes of Rebellion
by Raquelle Sheen

Click here to read the full article

Use this forum to share your thoughts on this article.

Kit 4GC
31, Cape Girardeau, Missouri

Posts: 4439
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 07 1:00 pm Reply with quote Report this to the Response Team

Very well-written. And I agree. I have witnessed both forms of rebellion, and I really believe the second is the saddest. Parents are to protect their kids, not be a reason the kids need to protect themselves. What's really sad is when a family experiences the natural rebellion, and then the parents, fearing for their other kids, "tighten up" and wind up facilitating very provoked rebellion, when the younger kids weren't on the wrong path in the beginning.

I think the biggest cause for provoked rebellion in kids is a misunderstanding of authority in the parents. They don't understand that there's such a thing as healthy inquiry or that listening to the kid's side of things isn't encouraging belligerence. Parents often don't realize that by exerting unquestionable authority, they're actually instilling in their teen the very desire to rebel they're trying to quench.

Thanks, Raquelle, for writing this!

Amiable Amy
26, A State Bordered by Eight

Posts: 1283
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 07 1:46 pm Reply with quote Report this to the Response Team

Yes, very good article. I have found in my own life that my rebellion came entirely from me (though I didn't want to own up to it), but during the rare times I felt my parents weren't listening to me or showing love when disciplining me submitting was even harder.

I still struggle againt my rebellious heart today, but since my Lord Jesus took control, obeying is not the hardship it used to be. Smile Truly, salvation is the best thing to restore the "love bank"! Very Happy

Patrick Eklektos
26, In God's Will

Posts: 1359
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 07 1:59 pm Reply with quote Report this to the Response Team

Bravo and well done! As a lad in my latter teen years, I sympathize one way and as just beginning my life, seeking wisdom, I sympathize the other. And I quite agree with all that was written. But I have one thought on point three of "withdrawals." Raquelle polished it off with this statement:

Quote:
Simply stick to the precise, unexaggerated problem of what your teen did right now—not why he did it.


I would disagree here in that the "why" is very much important in the case presently on the floor. If she means whether he did unsaid crime on purpose or not, then this is a legitimate argument. But when I read it, I happed upon the idea that the why of the crime was entirely unimportant. On the contrary, it is very much important in the "training up of a child in the way he should go."
My point is just this, if one punishes a child/teen without explaining why his offence was wrong, then one only breeds moralists and legalists. However, the "why" as from Scripture helps to convict the heart of the criminal and gives said parent every opportunity to witness to an unsaved child or exhort a brother in Christ to godly obedience to our beloved Sovereign.
Finally, such loving conduct does also make "deposits" when loving parents tell their child that they do not enjoy punishing them but that they do so to train him up unto godliness. It is for their love of God and then of their child. This went a great way in my own upbringing.

Thank you, Raquelle, for so insightful an article. And thank you for your wisdom.

Sola Deo Gloria

David Petersen
28, Harrogate, TN

Posts: 3022
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 07 2:01 pm Reply with quote Report this to the Response Team

Good article Raquelle!

Kit said:
"Parents often don't realize that by exerting unquestionable authority, they're actually instilling in their teen the very desire to rebel they're trying to quench."

Yes, I completely agree and some have found out the hard way. Your faith and Christian walk cannot be a rules game. Unbiblical forms of authority have given many conservatives problems, and there is one man in particular I detest for that...

Kit 4GC
31, Cape Girardeau, Missouri

Posts: 4439
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 07 4:38 pm Reply with quote Report this to the Response Team

Patrick Eklektos wrote:
If she means whether he did unsaid crime on purpose or not, then this is a legitimate argument.


I'll note that I don't think it's at all helpful to use criminal terminology. It's likely to just make the situation worse. It would be very easy for the child to say, "Well, Mom already thinks I'm a criminal, so why not prove her right?" Anyway, it's more complicated than that, but I thought I'd try to make a point.

bekah girl
30, Lavender Meadows

Posts: 1458
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 07 5:27 pm Reply with quote Report this to the Response Team

Patrick Eklektos wrote:
Bravo and well done! As a lad in my latter teen years, I sympathize one way and as just beginning my life, seeking wisdom, I sympathize the other. And I quite agree with all that was written. But I have one thought on point three of "withdrawals." Raquelle polished it off with this statement:

Quote:
Simply stick to the precise, unexaggerated problem of what your teen did right now—not why he did it.


I would disagree here in that the "why" is very much important in the case presently on the floor. If she means whether he did unsaid crime on purpose or not, then this is a legitimate argument. But when I read it, I happed upon the idea that the why of the crime was entirely unimportant. On the contrary, it is very much important in the "training up of a child in the way he should go."
My point is just this, if one punishes a child/teen without explaining why his offence was wrong, then one only breeds moralists and legalists. However, the "why" as from Scripture helps to convict the heart of the criminal and gives said parent every opportunity to witness to an unsaved child or exhort a brother in Christ to godly obedience to our beloved Sovereign.
Finally, such loving conduct does also make "deposits" when loving parents tell their child that they do not enjoy punishing them but that they do so to train him up unto godliness. It is for their love of God and then of their child. This went a great way in my own upbringing.

Thank you, Raquelle, for so insightful an article. And thank you for your wisdom.

Sola Deo Gloria



I don't think that Raquelle is stating that a teenager be disciplined without being aware of why. But, generally speaking, by the time a child has reached the teen years, they have a grasp of right from wrong and are pretty much aware of why they shouldn't have done what they did. So the parent should address the action, tone of voice, choice of words, etc. If it's a one-time offense, a long discussion on why it happened isn't probably going to bring about much good.

However, if this is an on-going problem, it should be discussed. Just not right then.

At a later time, when all parties involved have good attitudes again, sit down with each other for a mature discussion. Everyone will be more open to sharing and to being teachable. Having the why behind someone's on-going, ungodly behavior put out for inspection is an affront to our human pride and trying to discuss it in the heat of the moment will often only result in more emotional and spiritual injuries.

bekah girl
30, Lavender Meadows

Posts: 1458
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 07 5:28 pm Reply with quote Report this to the Response Team

One more thought . . . discipline and punishment are two completely different things.

Patrick Eklektos
26, In God's Will

Posts: 1359
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 07 10:04 pm Reply with quote Report this to the Response Team

Kit, you have it way mixed up! I am a writer and I love synonyms; the more colourful, the better. LOL I am not advocating parents call their children criminals. That would be just plain criminal!
bekah, I think you are absolutely correct in your surmise. However, I was not talking of basic right and wrong; rather, I meant of why the Word of God said it was wrong. For instance, say the child rebels against his parental authority. Point out the fourth commandment, the curses for dishonour, and the promises for honour to one's parents. Point out how he has offended God so he knows that he is sinning against God. This will be immensely helpful in parents' efforts to evangelize to their own children.
You are right, as teens, children already know right from wrong. From there, they will decide if they be legalists or just plain rebels. But to point out their failure to God will convict their conscience.

SDG

Patrick Eklektos
26, In God's Will

Posts: 1359
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 07 10:05 pm Reply with quote Report this to the Response Team

bekah girl wrote:
One more thought . . . discipline and punishment are two completely different things.


I will add that I exactly agree with this as well as what you said previously. I was only clarifying what I was saying. LOL And God bless.

SDG

GoodgirlAllison
29, Texas

Posts: 770
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 07 2:18 am Reply with quote Report this to the Response Team

I agree very much with this article! I've always believed the extreme kind of teen rebellion that we see nowadays, the kind that everyone thinks is just "normal", can be preventable. It's so ture! I'm very glad I'm not the only one who recognizes this. Many people are usually shocked to hear that I'd never truly "rebelled" against my parents, by dying my hair a funky color, or sneaking out, or shop lifting, or smoking secretly, or listening to bad music, etc. What they think is normal, seems abnormal to me. Well done!

Kit 4GC
31, Cape Girardeau, Missouri

Posts: 4439
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 07 12:41 pm Reply with quote Report this to the Response Team

Patrick Eklektos wrote:
Kit, you have it way mixed up! I am a writer and I love synonyms; the more colourful, the better. LOL I am not advocating parents call their children criminals. That would be just plain criminal!


No, Patrick, I'm not mixed up. I know your penchant for words, and I knew what you meant. HOWEVER, I'm saying that even any kind of use of that word can be extremely harmful even if you're just thinking it. The reality is, their actions are NOT criminal. PERIOD. So to say they ARE is only setting up both the parent and the kid for major problems further down the road. And when talking about a teenager's misdeeds, this is extremely important. Hyperbolic and colorful expressions help NOTHING in this area.

Patrick Eklektos
26, In God's Will

Posts: 1359
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 07 1:45 pm Reply with quote Report this to the Response Team

Kit wrote:
No, Patrick, I'm not mixed up. I know your penchant for words, and I knew what you meant. HOWEVER, I'm saying that even any kind of use of that word can be extremely harmful even if you're just thinking it. The reality is, their actions are NOT criminal. PERIOD. So to say they ARE is only setting up both the parent and the kid for major problems further down the road. And when talking about a teenager's misdeeds, this is extremely important. Hyperbolic and colorful expressions help NOTHING in this area.


LOL You have a point there! My dad has always said that I have a way of saying things rather harshly at times. LOL But my side note has gone on long enough.
Really, Raquelle has hit it upon the head. I have noticed the "deposits" and "withdrawals" in my own childhood. And I praise God for the many "deposits" my parents have made. It is my prayer that I might improve on what I have learned from them and make "deposits" where they may have made "withdrawals" in my own children. In the mean time, I have great practice with me wee brothers. LOL
Thank you, again, Raquelle and God bless you all.

SDG

Raquelle 5GC
34,

Posts: 5978
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 07 1:16 pm Reply with quote Report this to the Response Team

Thanks for the comments, everyone!

Let me clarify my "why" remark since it caused confusion. I'm sorry about that! Very Happy

I said:

Simply stick to the precise, unexaggerated problem of what your teen did right now—not why he did it.

What I meant by this is not that you can't explain why it was wrong and why they shouldn't have done it--on the contrary, that is very important!!! I simply meant that the focus should be on the deed itself, not the reason the kid did it.

A lot of times parents will ask, "Why did you do such a thing?" and spent a lot of time on the why of it. This question is fine as a means of collecting previously-unknown information. Maybe there were serious extenuating circumstances that impact the case.

However, beyond collecting information, asking "Why did you do this?" and overfocusing on that is basically telling the child, "Go ahead, give me all your excuses." Very Happy Very Happy Unless there were serious extenuating circumstances, the "why" is not nearly so important as the "what." Because, regardless of provocation, wrong actions are still wrong actions.
If I hit my sister in anger because she insulted me first, I'm still wrong. My actions are not made better because of the "why."

Most kids are far more interested in discussing the "why" and trying to justify their actions thereby. "I only did it because SHE said.....well, I wouldn't have done it if I felt like you CARED about me....well, THEY started it...." In reality, the "why" rarely justifies our actions and it's a bit of a manipulative rabbit trail to get off on.

Besides, sometimes kids really don't know why they did it. Very Happy The impulse of the moment hits 'em and they just, y'know, do it. Why not? So their parents ask why and all they can say is, "I dunno." This annoys the parents, but hey, they probably DON'T know. And either way, the important matter is what they DID, not why they did it.

Make sense?

Patrick Eklektos
26, In God's Will

Posts: 1359
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 07 11:28 am Reply with quote Report this to the Response Team

Indeed, Amen, and Thank You. Sorry for my rant.

SDG

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